Sunday, May 18, 2014

More fun "discoveries" from a lovely, sunny, "cooler" Sunday morning...

I've been making "out there" crosses for years. Many "what if?" combinations have been generated with many either returning few decent results, nor none at all. That can be frustrating, but also inspiring. I'm sure you're familiar with the old saying, "If at first you don't succeed, you need a bigger hammer!" That's pretty much what I have done. Collect much more pollen of the desired "fathers" and more heavily pollinate the desired "mothers" and it appears to have given some promising results. These are all in the seed tables. The crosses were accomplished in 2013 and all have germinated since planting last December, making the oldest seedlings about five months old. 

Pretty Lady is an extremely healthy plant in my climate. Fortunately, it's also very fertile, both as seed and as pollen parent. The stated parentage includes R. Davidii elongata  which has helped give Baby Love, then Pretty Lady their increased black spot resistance, at least to a number of black spot strains. It isn't a cure all for black spot, but definitely the beginning of building improved combinations of black spot resistance. 

One of the crosses I made which honestly excited me resulted in these lovely seedlings. Pretty Lady X 1-72-1Hugonis produced this lovely foliage. 

I know they are actual crosses between the two parents as the seeds were harvested from Pretty Lady. The color, leaf shape, texture and prickles all point right back to the Hugonis hybrid parent. The foliage is very healthy in a difficult situation of trapped humidity within the seed table. When the sun shines on the box, it is direct, extreme and intense. Even using a moisture control soil, it can dry out quite quickly and the seedlings can fry to death, but these are remaining healthy, vigorous and beautiful. None have flowered yet, so I have no idea what coloring nor flower shapes to expect, but pretty much anything in the white to pastels should be possible. 

IHTxLB is a Robert Rippetoe Banksiae hybrid he shared with me several years ago. Robert has some lofty breeding goals and has created some beautiful, incredibly imaginative seedlings. I love the deep purple, single flowers; the healthy, dark, bluish-green foliage and the open habit of the plant. Fortunately, it is very fertile and has accepted a wide range of pollen. 

This seedling is also a definite cross between the two parents. The seed parent (mother) combines International Herald Tribune, a rose I imported from the Harkness Nursery back in 1984-85. It figures prominently in almost all the dark purple roses introduced in the past fifteen plus years. International Herald Tribune contains genes from R. Californica, the California native species rose; and several purple, orange and yellow Hybrid Teas and floribundas. The pollen parent for Robert's seedling was Lila Banks, a result of his putting pollen from a friend's creation named "The Monster"  on Lilac Charm, a British mauve floribunda introduced in the early sixties from LeGrice, and supposedly also containing R. Californica genes. IHTxLB combines Old Blush, R. Banksiae, R. Californica, a few doses of Grey Pearl, orange, yellow and various mauve modern roses. The pollen I used was from R. Fedtschenkoana, with its wonderful silvery-turquoise foliage and "ghostly" white flowers. You can definitely see the Fedtschenkoana prickles and foliage in this seedling. With any luck, it might even have mauve, to (hopefully!) purple blooms and might even offer some repeat. 
The Towhees, a native, "pain in the ear" bird, found digging up the soil in the seed tables irresistible, so I've had to leave the screen cover on this table a bit too long. This and several other overly vigorous seedlings have grown through the screen. I will have to cut openings in it to permit removal without damaging the plants. You can see the definite Fedtschenkoana influence and this one is absolutely vigorous! 

Another in the same table, also suffering from having grown up through the screen is a cross between the white sport of Secret called Secret's Out! and R. Fedtschenkoana. Again, the Fedtschenkoana character is obvious. I know this is a definite cross. 
Cal Poly can pass on yellow blooms as well as significantly reduced totally prickle-free seedlings. This is Cal Poly X 1-72-1Hugonis. When using the more modern rose as seed parent, you may not obtain quite as full a cross due to potentially mismatched chromosome count, and it's more possible to create triploids, three sets of genes rather than even numbered pairs, which might result in reduced fertility, but definitely not always, but it's tremendously easier to determine if the seedling is an actual cross instead of a self seedling. The Hugonis character is obvious in this seedling. From the lineage, I expect the flower to be some shade of yellow. 
Normally, I would not have pollinated Cal Poly with 1-72-1Hugonis because it represents a double dose of 1-72-1, which might result in more of a climbing habit. 1-72-1 is a cross of Little Darling, which can be rangy, and Yellow Magic, a semi climbing yellow miniature. Cal Poly is more dwarf and bushy, but has sported to a climbing form, so climbing plants are possible. 1-72-1Hugonis is a tall plant. Hopefully the more dwarf, bushy genes predominate in this seedling, and the introduction of the Hugonis genes helps dilute the doubled Little Darling and Yellow Magic genes. Hugonis is definitely "in there", as evidenced by the foliage shape, texture and color as well as the prickles. 

This seedling has been stunted by the screen the previous seedlings have grown through, but it appears to want to be taller. It resulted from Pink Petticoat X R. Fedtschenkoana. Another obvious actual cross as evidenced by the foliage and prickles. No flowers yet, but they could be anything from pinkish-orange tones all the way through white.

 Fedtschenkoana has the ability to bleach out flower pigments quite easily, which is why I continue searching for the darker flower on the silvery-turquoise foliage. So far, the best result has been Paul Barden's Fedlav-01, his cross of my Orangeade X Fedtschenkoana seedling with Midnight Blue. My own seedling using DLFED 3, the mossy Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana seedling with pollen from Blue for You, resulted in a plant with lovely silvery-turquoise foliage, but none of the violet tones hoped for. Midnight Blue did appear to help remove the "mossing" from the buds as they are completely smooth. 

 It appears to be fertile as it has set large, red-orange hips. Whether there are many or few seeds, or even if any seeds present will germinate, we shall see next year. 
Not as easily seen due to the screen lid being stuck on the seed table until I cut holes for the other seedlings to pass through, this seedling between Golden Angel and 1-72-1Hugonis is the one I'm really excited to see mature. Golden Angel has a great ability to pass on the character of the pollen parents used on it. Take a look at Ralph Moore's Golden Angel X R. Californica nana hybrid. My hope is this might produce a more dwarf, hopefully repeat flowering Hugonis hybrid without the drawbacks of the doubled genes the previous Cal Poly X 1-72-1Hugonis seedling may express. 
This cross was made with the intention of adding the Fedtschenkoana foliage to the violet bloom. It's difficult to determine how much of a real "hybrid" it is and how much of a self crossing it might be as I've not raised seedlings from Werner von Blon until this batch. This is a relatively recent (1993) polyantha from Germany. There is no stated parentage nor are there any documented offspring. This seedling does demonstrate a different foliage texture, color and petal width, texture and color from the seed parent, but little of what I would have through Fedtschenkoana should have provided. I'll have to watch it to see if the species character becomes more apparent with maturity. So far, I do like the results! I've not detected enough scent to determine if any of the "Linseed Oil" scent from Fedtschenkoana is present. 

In a previous entry, I posted about the Pink Petticoat X 1-72-1Hugonis seedling which flowered for the first time this past week. This is its sister seedling. It is definitely a hybrid between the miniature and species hybrid, but it isn't expressing the hybrid vigor of the sibling. I've had to move the plant to the front yard where I can better protect it from the severity of the western, afternoon sun. The growth is still too thin to endure hours of relentless sun. Perhaps with some maturity it will become less susceptible to being fried in weather extremes? We'll see. 

I find the blue tones of the foliage and reddish bronze of the new growth and prickles more attractive than those of the larger, huskier sister seedling. 

Lynnie X R. Arkansana "Peppermint". This cross was meant to see if Peppermint's stippling might express itself in its seedlings. 
The next two Springs are definitely going to be fun!


  1. Kim, Pretty Lady looks great, As do a lot of the the others.

    Regards David.

  2. I think you might mean the Pretty Lady X 1-72-1Hugonis seedlings, David. Thank you! I'm honestly excited about all of them and can't wait for them to mature.

  3. Hi Kim...I have wondered about Rosa Glauca as a parent because of the prettu foliage. What is your opinion of that rose?

  4. Hi Sally, I think Glauca is gorgeous! It's been worked with previously and quite a few have found it difficult to work with. Not meant to dissuade you from trying because the harder it is to get results, the greater the potential rewards for success. Its foliage is spectacular. Hopefully, that is the first trait you can pull forward into something with, perhaps larger, more continuous flowers. Imagine about a three by three foot, well branched bush with that type of foliage (so it fits either planting in pots or the new "average" garden), pushing flowers spring through fall. I'd buy it! Good luck!

  5. These are indeed fun surprises. Promise of something new. There is something invigorating in seeing your vigorous seedling. They remind me of the second Orangeade seedling, which I read about in your lovely fedtschenkoana story on HMF, BTW did you ever sow the 2d orangeade seedlings?

  6. Thank you! Anyone who gardens is a true optimist. Believing that the hard, tiny "rock", the dried out corm, tuber or bulb or the severed stick you push into the soil will become the beautiful plant in your mind's eye is absolute optimism! I retained the repeat flowering Oadefed and shared both with whomever wished them for several years. Paul Barden raised some interesting results from the once flowering seedling. I discarded the once flowering seedling because it wasn't as suitable for my climate (endless summer, so repeat is important). I've pimped the pollen several times, but preferred to use the pollen from the DLFED line as they include genes from Basye's Legacy, providing more intense flower and plant part coloring as well as significantly greater disease resistance. I've raised a number of self seedlings from the DLFED line but haven't retained any as none impressed me as improvements on the originals.

    1. With your extended growing season and now drought and us in Canada with our short growing season, quite a contrast and miracle indeed !

      If gardeners are optimist, I wonder what rose breeders are? Idealists?

      It took me sometime to digest and re-read your posts, as I'm but a rose enthusiast and enjoy reading your posts. I enjoy learning.

    2. That it is! Too bad we aren't able to balance that out so we each have a more optimum situation. Breeders are DREAMERS! Thank you! I appreciate your enjoyment. I'm glad you are enjoying this. I know I am!

  7. Kim, 'Green Calyx' is a sport of Old Blush and Mr. Blue Bird is (Old Blush x Old Blush) Have you raised any green roses? One of my more pathetic seedlings has leaves for petals and I'm wondering if this is common with Mr. Blue Bird or could it just be a result of the seedling just being in poor condition? Regardless these little guys have been quite fascinating :D

  8. Hi Bekah, yes ma'am, I have raised a few "green" roses. I grow "Green Calyx" as well as "Green Rose Reversion", where Green Calyx reverted to a pink China. I've not raised anything green from Mr. Bluebird, but have had quite a few similar results from other crosses. One of the most dramatic is on Help Me Find-Roses as "Queen of the Desert". Most of the greenish roses I've raised haven't been proliferation like this, but more green petals. One of the greenest isn't a great plant, and I wouldn't use it for breeding, but I keep it because it "speaks to me". I doubt your seedling having leaves for petals is due to its being in poor condition. It probably isn't vigorous because it wouldn't attract pollinators. Nature usually doesn't waste good genes on unsuccessful plants. What pollinators would be attracted to leaves instead of petals? Yes, I agree, seedlings can be extremely fascinating! Good luck!

  9. I meant to add, Ralph Moore's 0-47-19 often leads to greenish seedlings as does his Scarlet Moss.

  10. Thank you for the feedback :D

  11. You're welcome! Thank you for yours!